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Sat, 16 Jul 2022 04:25:33 +0200

@Om*

atomjack@diasp.org

#perpetualmachine #ball #bowl #down #up #animatedgif

show all 43 comments

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 13:28:58 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

Amazing how the ball jumps higher than from where it came ;-)

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 21:25:27 +0200

Greg A. Woods

robohack@diasp.org

Heh. Looks a little fake to me!

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:36:50 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

Not to me. The drop imparts a quantity of kinetic energy to the ball with each drop. It loses a quantity of kinetic energy as it circles the bowl so that the energy gained by dropping isn't cumulative and the energy acquired by the drop is exactly the right amount.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:37:37 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

Not to me. The drop imparts a quantity of kinetic energy to the ball with each drop. It loses a quantity of kinetic energy as it circles the bowl so that the energy gained by dropping isn’t cumulative and the energy acquired by the drop is exactly the right amount each time.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:51:45 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

the energy acquired by the drop is exactly the right amount each time.

The ball jumps higher than the point from which it started falling, which is impossible. If you look closer, you'll see a tiny little hiccip in the animation when it jumps back into the bowl.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:58:09 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

The hiccup is the loop part, and given near zero friction drag, the ball retains energy sufficient for the jump which is not impossible. When it circles the bowl it still has energy added for the next jump.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:59:48 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

The hiccup is the loop part, and given near zero friction drag, the ball retains energy sufficient for the jump which is not impossible--notice that at no time do you see the ball dropped from the bottom of the bowl first. When it circles the bowl it still has energy added for the first jump and each following jump.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:16:19 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

Believe me: if this was real, it would be all over the news all over the world.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:22:52 +0200

Greg A. Woods

robohack@diasp.org

I wouldn't be surprised if it was entirely CGI.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:30:12 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Greg A. Woods I think so too.

Sat, 16 Jul 2022 23:33:37 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Why on earth would it be? It's not useful; you can't harness it to do work. It's not the only mechanical doohickey making the same claim, you know. It's filed under NOVELTY.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 01:41:53 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

File it under novelty, science or hoax, an eternal motion does not exist. Again, the ball jumps back in the bowl, which is slightly higher than the point from which the ball falls. That means it would need more energy to jump into the bowl than it got because of the fall. Plus, it dissipates some energy by rolling over the rail and because of air resistance, so it has actually less energy when it has to make its jump.

Really a "perpetuum mobile", as it's called in Latin, is impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 02:25:56 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Pffft. You're comparing apples to oranges with that. Sorry. It's obvious to the unbiased observer that energy that puts the ball in motion is added to the energy it gets when it drops. The fact that it circles the bowl at all = kinetic energy. This thing doesn't perpetuate into eternity and you're pretending that it does. That's YOUR problem, not mine.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 02:36:39 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Here ya go--amuse yourself with one of these, how 'bout. Image/photo

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:34:27 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

You're right, if the ball keeps moving forever without adding energy, that's not a perpetuum mobile... :rolling_eyes:

Whatever.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:42:12 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Ya, because you've misread the entirety making false equivalencies. Whatever indeed.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:44:20 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:48:03 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Clara Listensprechen Apples and oranges, as you said. Those surfaces have different colours: one's black, the other's silver. Which means one heats up, the other does not. You're adding energy here. Try that thing in the dark, see how it runs.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 03:50:40 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

It's a picture. You're arguing with a picture. The picture is just sitting there and you're arguing with a picture that's just sitting there. That's what happens when people make false equivalencies all on your own. The Drinking Bird might suit your fancy better, perhaps.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:03:14 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Clara Listensprechen No, I'm arguing with you. The picture doesn't type things that go against the basic laws of physics, you do. Surely you had a reason for posting this particular picture, not? I wouldn't even be surprised if you had a things like that in your house, they were pretty common in the 80's and 90's. And yes, they seem to be working all by themselves, which suggests they're actually an example of a perpetuum mobile, but they're not.

But believe whatever you want to believe. Try reading up a bit though, it might enlighten you.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:16:20 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

I'm still hunting for the text of whatever you're arguing with in that picture and can't find any. You're arguing with yourself by the looks of it.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:18:00 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

The purpose of the picture is to demonstrate how you pull stuff to argue with out of thin air. Thanks for playing--you won.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:30:15 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

I win once you understand that the original post is not real. I don't think I've won yet.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 05:03:57 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

You won all you're gonna win. G'night!

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 06:10:42 +0200

Robert Biloute - on diaspora-fr.org

robertbiloute@diaspora-fr.org

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/marble-machine-video/

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 06:31:55 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Ah, a person of reason at long last!

Thank you thank you thank you! For the record, I was falsely accused of labeling the original post "perpetual machine" when it's not even my post. I was addressing whether or not the image was altered/photoshopped/fake. I maintain that it is not.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:18:21 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

Thanks @Robert Biloute - on diaspora-fr.org.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:27:41 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

^^Wants to pick fights just for the sake of picking fights and will invent stuff to pick fights over.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:35:39 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

I'll say. Needs a class in English Comprehension.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:36:36 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

I'll say. He's going on the Ignore list/Blocked list as of now.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:26:57 +0200

Robert Biloute - on diaspora-fr.org

robertbiloute@diaspora-fr.org

you may put energy conservation on your ignore list too, much annoying little physics law, must be fascist or something

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:55:52 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

Such a peddler of defamatory lies as yours even though your link vindicates what I've been saying all along definitely belongs on those lists, bastard.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:01:38 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

What part of doesn't look fake to me does that b** not understand, and pretends his link didn't verify that? Looks like Hans has a buddy candidate for Remedial English class.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:10:59 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

Folks, it remains a deep mystery how Robert's claim that a video that wasn't faked actually was faked as Hans claims has anything to do with energy conservation. Anybody who can explain the faking of a video's relation to conservation of energy is certainly welcome to explain that to me as long as you remain civil and don't lie. I block liars.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 20:02:16 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

Anybody who can explain the faking of a video's relation to conservation of energy is certainly welcome to explain that to me

I tried, but you wouldn't listen.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 20:23:54 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

You can't explain what doesn't exist, hon.

Editing a video clip has zero effect on the conservation of energy. I maintained that the video wasn't a fake and Robert's link says the video of the same gizmo doing the same thing isn't a fake, and here the both of you are claiming that videos affect conservation of energy/conservation of energy affect video clips. The video is not a fake and you claimed that it was, and despite what was said about the genuineness of the video by the link Robert posted, Robert backs you up on your claim that the presence or absence of video editing has any kind of impact on the conservation of energy. Any self-respecting physicist would know better.

Sun, 17 Jul 2022 21:41:08 +0200

Robert Biloute - on diaspora-fr.org

robertbiloute@diaspora-fr.org

To be exact I can't say the video is fake, but the title is from a physics perspective.

It can't be perpetual because it can't work without an energy source (not without seriously challenging fundamental physics at least).

It can't work without an energy source because the ball falling in a gravitational field has just the exact energy needed to reach the starting height when coming back (if there is no energy loss), not higher as seen in the video. To go higher it needs a little extra from something, at each turn.

The absence of energy source is implied in the video since whatever source there is, it is hidden + the title.

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:18:32 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

Well, folks, here it a day later and none of the conservation of energy people have been able to say why the conservation of energy even applies to a video clip on automatic replay. It's a short clip of an actual machine and the clip keeps looping. No conservation of energy law has been harmed in the process.

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:24:01 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

If you wanted things explained, I'd give it another go. But you're only here to "win" a discussion, not to actually learn anything. So I'll pass, "hon".

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:40:46 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

I've stated the facts as they stand--and they remain standing. *The clip is of an actual machine, therefore it's not fake *the clip is looping *the laws of the conservation of energy do not apply to looping videos of any sort *anybody who patronizes me gets both barrels.

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:50:07 +0200

Clara Listensprechen {in stickershock}

clara_listensprechen@diasp.org

Direct quote from Snopes: "While this is authentic footage of a genuine product, the “perpetual” marble machine does not operate infinitely without an additional energy source." It looks like it does because there's a trick to it, not because it's fake. It is not fake.

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:52:16 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

Sure "hon", whatever you want.

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 19:08:35 +0200

Clara Listensprechen

claralistensprechen@social.outsourcedmath.com

So I took a screenshot of Snopes since a simple text quote ain't good enough for you: