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Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:11:06 +0100 last edited: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:12:09 +0100

Lauren Weinstein via Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

Overall, #Google Search quality (including AI Overviews):

Hasn't changed much

0 Votes | 0%

Is better than ever

0 Votes | 0%

Is somewhat worse

6 Votes | 25%

Has fallen off a cliff

18 Votes | 75%

24 Votes in total
Poll has ended

show all 25 comments

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:45:33 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein Don't know, really. I abandoned everything Google long ago because I don't trust them at all.

They're too big to care, getting a few fines here and there doesn't stop them from doing their evil.

To hell with Google, I say.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:48:34 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans They're trustworthy where it most matters, in the security and privacy realms. How long that will remain the case given the skew of resources toward their AI projects is an open question.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:49:01 +0100

Asta McCarthy

AstaMcCarthy@mastodon.pirateparty.be

@lauren Google? Do people still use that?

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 18:19:10 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein Privacy? You trust Google when it comes to privacy?

Google has more data on you than the government and your doctor combined, I see no reason to trust them with regard to privacy.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 18:46:02 +0100

Scott :clippy:

scotts@infosec.exchange

@lauren e) i don’t know because i stopped using it a while back

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 18:48:02 +0100

stirlhoss :emacs:

stirlhoss@fosstodon.org

@lauren I've been on the udm=14 "hack" so I have been loving old school google search results! Better index than DDG but without all of the new junk that takes up the entirety of your screen

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 18:48:34 +0100

ReneDamkot

ReneDamkot@mastodon.social

@lauren it’s bordering on unusable.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:08:45 +0100

Epistomai

epistomai@mastodon.social

@ReneDamkot @lauren I would vote, but since they use bing... meh

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:12:32 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans Yes, Google is world class at privacy. I've worked inside, and I know the processes and teams. Excellent work. However, like I said, I can't predict the future going forward with so many teams' resources being sucked off by AI.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:22:38 +0100

Hagarashi8

hagarashi8@allthingstech.social

@lauren @hans Security - Yes, Privacy - No, they could be one of the most non-trustworthy company in terms of privacy.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:39:47 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein No organization in the history of mankind has gathered so much information about almost everybody on the planet, the vast majority of it not given willingly but gotten by coercion, blackmail, advanced deduction or simply theft from user devices, but you say they're trustworthy???

You and I live in very different worlds... 🤷

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:48:12 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans Like I've said, I've worked inside G, and I know quite a bit -- perhaps even more than you -- about how their privacy protocols actually work. Of course if you've had more experience inside G than I have, I bow to your superior knowledge.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 20:18:06 +0100

Joe

not2b@sfba.social

@lauren @hans I am confident that they work very hard to control access to the data that they collect. But they make it available, at least indirectly, to advertisers and data brokers, and governments can subpoena it. The very existence of this massive trove is a risk.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 20:22:09 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@not2b @hans Google has never sold user data. They have by far the most extensive user controls in this context that I know of regarding what data is collected, how it is used, and how long it is retained. I'd be vastly more concerned about your ISP and mobile carrier's data collection and use/retention/release practices if I were you.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 20:23:41 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein Looking from the inside out gives you an very different view than when looking from the outside.

I've seen them lie about all kinds of issues year after year, getting fine after fine for breach of privacy, market manipulation, unfair trade practices and whatnot.

I see no reason for trust, working there may have clouded your view. Google is evil, period.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 20:30:27 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans I've been critical of Google where criticism is warranted from Day One. And as you probably know I'm very critical of various aspects of their operations today under Sundar. And frankly, I was not quiet inside about situations where I felt criticism was warranted. So with all due respect, I think I've avoided the clouding you assert.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 21:11:23 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein @Joe You are obviously not me.

My ISP could keep an eye on my traffic, so I picked one that doesn't do that. Other than that, they know nothing about me and they're not in the business of knowing everything about me. Google is.

My ISP has to respect the GDPR. Nothing like that exists in the US, and Google is already in a lawsuit for breaking that law.

One way they break it, is by sucking in school children and students, by forcing them into Google Workplace and using Chromebooks.

Google analyses everybody's e-mail, even replacing URLs in it so they they will be routed through their systems. You must know about that if you've worked there, right?

As former employee you must be aware of what Chrome is, right? It's a tracking and advertising platform, dressed as a webbrowser.

Let me repeat myself: Google is evil. Plain evil.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 21:29:44 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans You obviously know FAR more about how Google works inside than I do, even though I spent time inside working directly with the relevant teams, and I assume you haven't. So there's no more to say. Happy New Year.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 21:40:11 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein I haven't seen any counter arguments...

I don't trust them at all, you do. That's fine, I'll do me and you do you.

Happy New Year 🍾

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 21:44:41 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@hans You might want to read over my many years of blog postings and other missives about Google, where I discuss both real issues and hyperbolic claims about Google. They go back many, many years. Again, HNY.

Tue, 31 Dec 2024 22:16:28 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein You made your point, I tried to make mine.

I've been in this business long enough to know when to distrust something. The records show that Google is evil, no matter how individual employees look at it.

I'm not blaming you or other employees, it's a combination of a new market and American capitalism.

Making as much money as possible is the ultimate goal, and everything else is secondary to that. Everything.

There's a reason why they abandoned the slogan "don't be evil"...

Wed, 01 Jan 2025 01:19:52 +0100

Trouble

trouble@masto.ai

@hans your ISP claims to respect the gdpr but they don't have the systems to even implement deletions on request much less audit access. Like Lauren, I spent decades inside Google, and watched teams being grilled for not having proper privacy controls. Privacy and security aren't one time checkboxes, they are repeating verifications that happen before and after launch. Internal systems also exist to audit data access, and anomalies are pursued. I've seen a few firings over unauthorized access.

Wed, 01 Jan 2025 01:33:56 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Trouble Sure, there are all kinds of protocols in place, and devout promises.

But if you have followed the news a bit during the last two decades, you would also have gotten the messages that all those promises and procedures mean absolutely fuckall once they could negatively impact profits.

Not sure why you and @Lauren Weinstein keep ignoring that. You watch the news and read newspapers every now and then, right?

The claim "I worked there so I know" doesn't impress me nearly as much as you may think. I'm fact, I'm thinking Stockholm Syndrome, tbh...

Stock brokers know exactly what happens in their industry, but all they say is how ethical and correct everything is.

Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:23:08 +0100

Lauren Weinstein

lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org

@trouble @hans And you're the serious expert. You were there to watch the evolution in action over the long term. I just popped in and out relatively briefly a couple of times as a TVC. But that was enough for me to see the rigorous nature of the controls, and to frankly wish that they could be understood better by the public at large, because the lack of that creates a vacuum that has been constantly filled with misinformation.

Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:17:53 +0100

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Lauren Weinstein @Trouble Whatever, keep defending the data maffia if you want, they have all the money in the world to pay for their lobbyists.

Trust them all you want, keep ignoring the endless stream of lawsuits and fines. You know better because you worked there.